Mike McAllen of Grass Shack Events & Media Interviews
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Mike McAllen: Welcome back to the Meetings Podcast. This is Mike McAllen of Grass Shack Events and Media and today we have David Schenberg, CEO of BusyEvent. Hi David.
David Schenberg: Hey, how are you?
Mike McAllen: I’m good. I’m well. I’m very good. It’s Friday and we’re ready for the weekend.
David Schenberg: Right on.
Mike McAllen: So why don’t you tell the audience first a little bit about you and then how you got into this crazy event business.
David Schenberg: Well, I think I [dived in] to how I got into this business in the 90s, way back in the 90s. I know that’s not that long ago. I started in the industry that promoted concerts and event tours for a company that actually later became Clear Channel.
Mike McAllen: Oh wow.
David Schenberg: So it’s a very early company I got [gobbled] up by Clear Channel, lots of traditional promotions, posters, signage and video and that kind of thing. In and around concert invents and traveling mall tours and all kinds of stuff for CBS Television and Procter and Gamble, and [MY] and things like that, and that eventually evolved into interactive and event promotions which eventually became the internet and touch screen kiosk and then mobile marketing and just lots of technology to get people to do something. And today I think they pretty much call the experience in marketing and so we tend to focus on the company on how to motivate people to participate in events and get the value out of it.
Mike McAllen: Great. And so you know have evolved your company to be – to get into BusyEvent?
David Schenberg: Yes. So I guess the company has come about over – I guess the series of that those events occurring but specifically, I met my business partner, Brian Slawin about 8 years ago at an event company. And we had been beating our heads in the one-off model for quite a while to build at once, sell at once, never visit it again model that would actually eat you alive.
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: And so eventually, we figured out some ideas for how to build a product that’s 80% of what most people want and it took some time and many lessons to get us to the point where we decided in 2006 to embark upon our own company and we’re certainly thankful for the lessons and the process that got us here. But in 2006, we broke off for more ad and started a company called Panamedia Group and very quickly that spun off a product called BusyEvent.
Mike McAllen: Perfect. That’s very cool. And so tell me a little bit about the BusyEvent.
David Schenberg: So BusyEvent came out of the realization that trade shows and events – the same kinds of events we’ve both been running for at that point, 15 years or so up almost 20 years, each of us, have been running the same way for the past chunk of time and that technology had really only – I mean, the technology we’ve been involved in. So it wasn’t like it had been done to us. We were participating in this kind of slow crawl of using technology to bring incremental increases in efficiency and so it’s only recently that the onslaught of social networking and social media habits have really demanded there would be a clean hand-off from what people naturally do in an online kind of community effort to what people do on the side naturally and then after to find the value in the events that they attend. And so we started building these tools and very quickly we were paying attention to what’s happening in social media, the Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn and blogging and the natural trend of people being more real-time and active, and so a year ago, we wrote an article called Trade Shows: Where Good Leads Go To Die and it outlined this trend. And almost a year to the day that we’d wrote that article, we launched a new technology at one of our favorite client events. This is just last month.
Mike McAllen: That’s very cool. It seems to me that it must be very difficult because the events and meetings industry is so kind of set in their ways to come in because I notice that about going to trade shows at – for events and media that – no, not media – events and meetings, that they’re all like venues but there’s not really technology – I mean, there is some but it seems like it’s difficult to sell it to the – I don’t know. I kind of – it’s interesting. It’s an interesting dynamic which you get into because it really is needed. Your service is really needed.
David Schenberg: Well, we appreciate you saying that. We all holistically agree.
Mike McAllen: Yes. It’s must be difficult to get people to use it. I’m not – I don’t know. Tell me, tell me more about it. Tell me more …
David Schenberg: So I’ll be specific about one thing and then maybe a case study where we – I refer to this event last month where we launched this and I’d like to probably use that as an example to tell you how it went and what it means. But your comments about it being difficult to break into kind of the way it’s been done for 20 years with the slow crawl to technology, the best way we’ve known how to get – to garner attention is to I would say we’re making a bold statement here but we can back it up for sure for the average size show and when I say average size show, I mean 2,000 to 5,000 attendees with an expo of a couple hundred up to maybe a thousand booths. We can actually cut the cost of that event in half for the event producers.
Mike McAllen: Right.
David Schenberg: Because we’re getting rid of the dinosaur that everybody is walking around with which is a lot of us hold kind of list-gathering technology which certainly provide value for the people who are at the event.
Mike McAllen: Yes. Yes and I guess that you have now the social media as you said in such a way that’s now breaking through that you can really hear about cool ideas like yours.
David Schenberg: If with things just like these like I was having a chat and maybe people listening to it.
Mike McAllen: That’s true, that’s true. So why don’t we – well, do you want to talk a little bit about the different services or do you want to talk about the case study to get rolling and then we could kind of dip into the …
David Schenberg: I think if I were a listener of this particular podcast, I’d want to hear a real live example as opposed to a sales pitch.
Mike McAllen: Right. It sounds better. Okay.
David Schenberg: So I’m a sales pitch and a good story. How about that?
Mike McAllen: If that’s the way you do it.
David Schenberg: Right. Well, I mean we’re all out providing values so …
Mike McAllen: Marketing 101, tell a story. Go ahead.
David Schenberg: … let me tell you a story about a large pizza company that starts with a letter D. This has been our client from nearly day one. They’ve really pushed us to make sure that the technology we’ve been developing is relevant to a return on investment. IE – they want to make sure they’re getting something more than what they paid for. So out of necessity, we recently invented a hardware device and platform called Event Bookmarking and this is really the answer to this whole Trade Shows: Where Good Leads Go To Die, we call it our Jerry Maguire document but we definitely down a year ago and said this is ridiculous and it was about the same time the economy started to waffle and we’re like something has going to give here.
People – the [paid] party is over, people don’t have massive budgets, they still want to have events and they have to be productive events. And so we were – we look at it again out of necessity, we weren’t going to go invest a million dollars in hand scanner devices or RFID or whatever the next generation gathering technology might be, and our goal was to cut the cost of traditional event management in half. And so for our client, that means providing an inexpensive wearable device that offers social networking, audience response, and expo lead management in lieu of the other more expensive unlimiting technology that simply gathers list like we’ve talked about.
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: And so all the people, places, and things that people have seen at the show are gathered onto a personal URL page but then becomes the basis for longer term discussions, interactivity, fellow employees sharing tips and techniques and so for the pizza company that starts with a letter D, we ran a recent show in Las Vegas and launched Event Bookmarking to a crowd of more than 3,000 people.
Mike McAllen: Wow.
David Schenberg: And over the two and a half day event, we captured over 35,000 connections that were person to person, speaker to attendee, and expo floor activity amongst these 3,000 folks. And all this information was made available within a second so it’s actually happening and so we’re able to give your client real-time reporting on what was happening and several of the expo vendors who are traditional [died] on the wall, major Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies were telling us that this was vast improvement over anything else that ever paid for to capture leads. So we got a lot of great feedback and not all of it was glowing, I mean, we learned a ton about better ways to market [new realized] technology. So this is a great event for us and the client was very well-cared for and that their expo floor of folks that paid money to show up and speak to the franchisees that were walking the floor, they felt like they’ve never been this well-cared for ever because we actually walked the floor and spoke to everybody and got their feedback on what they thought of the system and how they could use it better and make sure that they knew where to get their leads and that they were gathering up in real-time. So …
Mike McAllen: So people …
David Schenberg: … go ahead.
Mike McAllen: … so if I’m an attendee, how did that work for the attendee for this pizza company starting with a D if they walked in the door, how did that work for them?
David Schenberg: Well they by nature registering for the event. They were given a unique number that was printed on their badge and as they walked around meeting one another or interested in speakers or whatever, they would either punch in the number of the person they were standing in front of or the session code that they were sitting in or if they express interest in a specific product in a booth, they would literally punch that number into their little wearable device, just a little key [FUB] device with wireless connectivity in it; very inexpensive, clips to the lanyard and it was always there for them whenever they wanted to – so rather than carrying on big bags of brochures or trying to exchange business cards with folks, they were to stand during in three, four or five digit numbers that equaled something they’re interested in and all of that, I cruise back to a personal page for them and so attendees, they go back and download presentations and information about who they met.
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: And the connections are being tracked back to the people who want to know if their time and efforts were worth anything. So, this is all in a [trackable] system now, not brochures and bags of stuff and “give me your business card and I’ll send you something”. This has become real-time data for them.
Mike McAllen: That’s very cool. So then they – in turn, do they have a profile page then it says everything about them a part of it?
David Schenberg: At a minimum, they’ve got – so for the expo vendors who want to follow up with folks, at a minimum, the expo vendors were getting name, e-mail address, phone number – some, not everybody but a chunk of folks actually took the time to upload a picture or more simply just attach their LinkedIn or their Facebook profile. I mean, this will actually pull in your LinkedIn, your Facebook, your Twitter if you’re really that connected. A couple of links and a couple of boxes and your profile is pretty much done.
Mike McAllen: That’s very cool.
David Schenberg: So if I want to learn more about you or your company, I can click on a few links right from your profile and be looking at your products and your history and who you know and maybe we know some folks in common or that kind of thing.
Mike McAllen: That’s great. That’s a great idea. Great.
David Schenberg: Thanks.
Mike McAllen: So what other – so there’s different kinds of BusyEvent packages, is that the word to use?
David Schenberg: Actually, we’ve – how do I answer this easily? We’ve toyed with over the past couple of years various incarnations of packaging of software and hardware and things like that and what we’ve come to find most recently actually, over the past couple of weeks and it followed up with this big event, we learned a lot, that rather than trying to compete in the feature for future [drag] race with registration tools and survey tools and e-mail tools and all that, we’re coming to find that the two things that our clients and our prospects value most in what we’ve done or in the discussions or how or what we could do for them really have to do with the what happens just before a bunch of people show up for an event and what happens when they’re at the event, and what happens right after they’re done? And so it used to be kind of cool to say we were kind of soup-to-nuts or cradle-to-grave, we could do everything – we’re still a relatively small company. We don’t have to start up anymore but we’re all 100% company.
And so our uniqueness, I believe is really in this ability to capture really valuable data in and around live events, and being able to make a good handshake with someone else’s reg system or someone else’s association, marketing association, management system – there’s a bunch of IMS [Indiscernible 0:14:00] and a bunch of other tools out there that people have been using for years and rather than fight the heart transplant for – well to use our stuff, you got to throw out all the other stuff you did. That’s – just don’t think that boats well for a small company trying to break in. If we bring this other stuff to market that it does – what a lot of these other companies won’t touch is really from a competitive standpoint. If we’re on to do this thing on-site and do it and save people half the price of what they’ve been paying, then you can continue to use the other software you’ve been using and we just pick up where we pick up and bring this really juicy data that help the event run better and continue to tell people more about what they did and that to us is really where our success is going to come from.
Mike McAllen: Yes and then this economy it’s – people need to know what the heck is going on at the events.
David Schenberg: Yes. I mean – and if folks come around and they get excited about what we’ve done and later on they want to use our registration system and other softwares – we’ve proven ourselves then by all means, it’s – obviously the cleaner hand-off is the registration data and the badging and the credentialing and everything else that goes on as a nice streamline simple process.
Mike McAllen: Right, right. So the wireless device that you are using, it’s really small, isn’t it?
David Schenberg: Yes, it’s like …
Mike McAllen: I’ve never seen it but it looks very small. So it’s nice.
David Schenberg: … it’s the size of like a car remote kind of thing.
Mike McAllen: Oh, fantastic. So that’s nice and small.
David Schenberg: And it sits on top of a platform so that – I think what a lot of people have asked us in the past is did you invent this from scratch, is it FCC approved, how many do you have and a lot of these kind of how big are you, how reliable are you. We actually partnered with an audience response company. One of our – actually from our creative director, Josh [Jeffries] said one day, we’re trying to invent this thing. Don’t you think that there’s a couple of products in the market that might be – like what we say, 80% of what we want and 20% of what we’d customize and I’ll be darn if we didn’t find one and they did an excellent job of chasing the firmware and updating all of the things that we want it done. And so we’re sitting right on top of an audience response system that’s been proven in the industry for about 10 plus years and so I have to fight any of the wireless issues or FCC issues or any of the – oh, we didn’t think of that issues because these guys are already – they’re robust and they’ve given us their robustness that we need to be successful. So it works that really well.
Mike McAllen: So you get the data from the expo but then it can also be used as an audience response in like sessions. Is that what you’re …
David Schenberg: Yes.
Mike McAllen: … and then so like are you also getting – so then the presenters can work the audience response into their sessions basically if they want to …
David Schenberg: Yes, it’s one of the …
Mike McAllen: [Indiscernible 0:16:58] session or …
David Schenberg: … yes, it is. It’s one of the great features about the system is that for roughly the price of what someone might rent an audience response system for their group, they can have social networking and expo lead management.
Mike McAllen: Yes, that’s fantastic.
David Schenberg: That’s previous – that’s part of the how …
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: … that what you’re getting into is how we say we can cut the cost in half. It’s by giving them this kind of three-legged stool functionality for the price of just one of the legs.
Mike McAllen: That’s fantastic. So do you guys also have staffing then for these events to get things rolling on-site? I mean …
David Schenberg: We have some. We most – obviously, everybody we talked to is already doing something and so they already have volunteers and staffers and companies – a lot of companies that are doing event management probably some of even your listeners, their job is to – they may be have eight or ten conferences or events that they plan with their clients year round. And so we plug in nicely with those groups and that we always bring a couple of technologists – our technologists are not just propeller heads. They’re – a lot of times it’s either me or my business partner who are coming because we’re the ones with 40 [neutral] plus years in event management experience.
Mike McAllen: Sure.
David Schenberg: And so we can plug in nicely with the event management process and kind of train – help to train the staff of people who are going to be there to be able to do the basic stuff that needs to be done to make sure good customer service is given and that a nice, smooth process occurs. We keep quite a bit of hardware inventory and stocks so with the ability to take care of a lot of the on-site badging, credentialing, and essentially the toughest part which is getting people through their front door quickly and happily.
Mike McAllen: Right, right.
David Schenberg: And so we’re – we don’t – we’re not a staffing company, we never ever hoped to be a staffing company. We really envision ourselves as partnering nicely with event producers and the owners of the events who already know how to bring qualified people and staff to help out and be the extra hands and eyes that are required to give good service.
Mike McAllen: That’s very interesting. It’s a cool, cool idea.
David Schenberg: Thanks.
Mike McAllen: So why don’t you – do you have a couple of tips maybe for in this economy that [first day callers] in live meetings and events to really kind of find value in face to face meetings?
David Schenberg: Well, that’s a load of question. Clearly, that’s what we’re all about.
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: And so – I mean, we always break it down into the various groups, the stakeholder groups as you will and so in any economy, people will assess the value in their participation in a trade show or event. I mean, in any economies. I mean, today things aren’t so great and they make it better, they make it worse but event planners are faced with how to operate a successful event under serious budget pressures and the real challenge is to offer an experience that simply cannot be had anywhere else. And so face to face is still a large part of where business is transacted. I don’t think that’s ever going to go away.
Mike McAllen: No, I don’t think so either.
David Schenberg: I mean, virtual events and other kinds of things – I mean, people are toying with how do I create this but you’ve got to get face to face with your clients or your constituents or your fellow association members or whatever it is that you do for a living, and so while other technologies can help us along the way, the live event is still a vibrant place to connect. And so for attendees who used to come with a group of three to four co-workers, now has to run reconnaissance and gather industry insights and learn from speakers and experience new products and services and then take all of this back to and disseminate it for the team.
And so we’ve got to be able to support that attendee or it might be one or two versus four to six, we’ve got to make sure that, that attendee is getting everything back to and really the value of that attendee doing it electronically is that the vendors and the speakers can see that not only that the attendee go and look but 20 people may have gone back and looked at this Propage where all the stuff was located and that just creates better value for the other folks that were talking to that attendee because they can see. This company is truly interested in our products or our talk because there’s been a dozens of hits just from this one person’s Propage. So that’s really valuable for everybody and so that’s either on the attendee and who they touch.
So for the vendor who meets 2,000 people per show, 46 times per year and doesn’t have nearly the staff to keep in touch with 12,000 people a year, needs to know which 10% of the group is really interested in their products, which products? And so as an attendee, if I’ve expressed interest in a particular gadget and then went back and downloaded the PDF and clicked on the links and looked, I’m a part of that 10% of the group that probably deserves a follow-up.
Mike McAllen: Right.
David Schenberg: So fancy pens and brochures at booths are for trick or treaters in trash cans, as you say. And the business of lead management has evolved well beyond carrying just a big paper list back to the marketing manager.
Mike McAllen: Right.
David Schenberg: The vendors want new prospects in exchange for their time and money and that’s a huge – I mean, that’s a huge chunk of many shows is keeping those expo vendors happy and getting new business.
Mike McAllen: Sure, sure.
David Schenberg: And so we’re – there’s a green aspect here that we just kind of touched on not for very long but if an expo vendor which is not bring the multiple cases of brochures and catalogs to an event and just simply can write that to PDF that can be downloaded and tracked after the show, then that vendor can know they basically did a successful show because they handed out all of their stuff and what they probably realize and don’t want to admit is a lot of them wound up in trash cans in that very hotel where they were hanging out.
Mike McAllen: True.
David Schenberg: And so they won’t know who will look at their stuff unless it’s electronic and so that’s why we’re pushing electronic tracking is because it’s good for the environment and that’s frankly good for the vendor who wants to – who’s been looking or who hasn’t been looking.
Mike McAllen: Yes, very true.
David Schenberg: And so for the sponsor sort of work – kind of working up the money chain here from the least amount of money spent to the most amount of money spent. The sponsor is looking for more than their logo on Digital Signs and [Adkins]. They want to know the audience and their preferences. They want people to interact with their brand in an engaging environment where they can get some good feedback. Sponsorship money is really the problem – I mean, that sponsorship money might seem tight but if a show can deliver useful attendee data, opinion data, hands-on time with key decision makers, those are the dollars – those will help a sponsor feel like the dollars have been well spent is a direct connection to potential business. It’s just like an expo vendor only it’s reaching wider and so we look for ways to make sure that, that data gets into the sponsor’s hands so that they can have opportunities to ask questions of their constituents or their audience. People who might use their products or services and have that turn into some real-time opportunities where the sponsor feels like they came away with – maybe it’s information about how to improve their products or maybe it’s – we got 100 people to try our thing that we would have otherwise had to go to 100 different meetings to have happened.
Mike McAllen: Right, right and that’s a great idea, really great.
David Schenberg: And then so at the very top level and this would be my last insight, I guess, has to do with the show producer themselves. Someone who puts on the actual event to the association meeting, what have you, they need real-time event data. They’re the ones who need it the most because they’re running the event. I mean, it used to be you’d always plan 2 weeks after your event was over and you kind of caught your breath, you’d have a post-mortem and how your event went. A post-mortem is now officially too late in this day and age. Data is flying too quickly so – for example, electronic surveys instead of paper surveys can tell you that a speaker who will repeat their talk in the afternoon was off-topic this morning. And given this information, the producer can work to ensure that the afternoon crowd doesn’t fall asleep because they get that instant survey data back that says, “You know, the speaker wasn’t so great.” I mean, they’d be foolish to have that speaker repeat that effort especially in the afternoon after a nice big lunch of Sub sandwiches.
Mike McAllen: Right.
David Schenberg: And so technology has made things faster. People are twittering and blogging about an event as it occurs and so a simple tip or suggestion would be that show producers should be paying attention to the Twitter stream and the blogging information whether it’s under their control from their own systems or they’re just having people who’s job is to monitor the Twitter stream about this particular event they’re running because that’s the best kind of data you’re going to hear about something.
Mike McAllen: Right.
David Schenberg: If there’s a – you may hear about a problem in some corner of the show before you get notified about it because somebody twittered it.
Mike McAllen: Right.
David Schenberg: So I mean, having this information at your fingertips whether – again, whether you can control it with a system like ours or you’re just monitoring the social media streams can pay huge dividends so that – because your event can be agile and adjust to this evolving bits of information in real time. And so all of these can improve the success of the event instead of becoming the conversation about how we could do better next time because – again, if we’re talking about the economy and we’re talking about people being choosy about what shows I go to, if you bum as a producer, there may not be a next time for your audience.
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: I mean, they’ll simply spend their time and money elsewhere.
Mike McAllen: Right, very cool. Well, thank you.
David Schenberg: Thank you.
Mike McAllen: Great. Those are great things to think about it. I think it’s a change in landscaping. You guys really at the forefront of it which is very, very cool.
David Schenberg: But we’re having fun, that’s for sure.
Mike McAllen: Yes.
David Schenberg: We’re not beating our heads against the wall anymore. We’re getting ahead of the curve and I know if you’re a Guy, Kawasaki Guy but he’s the one who coined the term, curve jumping. So, rather than us joining the curve with all the other technologies, we really got out there and started our own curve and it starts to pay off.
Mike McAllen: It’s very cool. Yes, I saw him speak last weekend here at the Twitter con.
David Schenberg: Oh yes, yes. He’s awesome.
Mike McAllen: Yes, he’s a great guy.
David Schenberg: Everybody loves Guy Kawasaki. How can you not like that guy?
Mike McAllen: I don’t know if you can’t. It was funny because he would – that the audience got all angry with him with the – not angry but they were kind of like – because he doesn’t say – he doesn’t do his own twitters.
David Schenberg: Right.
Mike McAllen: They were all – why don’t you do it and he says, “Well, they’re ghost twitters.” But when he says it with a smile, it’s kind of like oh well, you know.
David Schenberg: It’s a fact of life.
Mike McAllen: Like you’re a spammer, he goes, “Yes, I’m a spammer or whatever – un-follow me if you don’t like it,” then okay.
David Schenberg: Well, someone who – so it’s like talking with them – I mean, any franchise if you will whether you’re in the biz or what you’re into – I mean, if the message is useful to you and if you like what he’s saying and it gives you inspiration to help you do something better or grow your company or be better in your business, who cares – who cooked it up? I mean, it’s under his tutelage.
Mike McAllen: Yes, yes. No, I agree. I agree.
David Schenberg: I find a lot of strength in the things he says and it helps – I’m sure it has helped many that have start up a company over the years become better.
Mike McAllen: Yes, I agree. I haven’t read his new book. I have to read that. The new …
David Schenberg: It’s sitting on my nightstand.
Mike McAllen: Yes. I got it from him and I need to read it. So how do people get a hold of you and to get more information on BusyEvent. So give me some ways to get a hold of you.
David Schenberg: Well, the www.busyevent.com is a good place to start. We constantly till the garden and keep it neat, and what not. We’re constantly turning the weed out, extraneous words so that it’s easier to read. And so inside of www.busyevent.com there are a couple of different blogs, there’s a lot of content, there are some videos, there’s a lot of event bookmarking information as you can imagine. So we’ve stocked www.busyevent.com pretty heavily with lots of useful stuff. Our blog is very full of the kinds of things we talked about today.
Mike McAllen: Great.
David Schenberg: Finding value and better ways to improve your event and we had a – my counterpart, Brian here wrote an article back in March – it was March or April about how to add Twitter to your next event, how to use Twitter, the power of Twitter to promote your event and like a thousand people read it one day.
Mike McAllen: That’s so cool.
David Schenberg: We’re happy to see people digging what we’re saying and find its use and it feels good to be a part of the community and give something useful. So www.busyevent.com is a great place and then www.twitter.com/busyevent Busy events are handled there at Twitter.
Panamedia Group, LLC
1734 Clarkson Road, Suite 350
St. Louis, MO 63017
Mike McAllen: Great.
David Schenberg: That’s probably a good start.
Mike McAllen: Yes, yes.
David Schenberg: I’m on LinkedIn; I’m on Facebook – blah, blah, blah …
Mike McAllen: Yes, all the usual places.
David Schenberg: As you’d expect.
Mike McAllen: Yes. You have to be, yes.
David Schenberg: Yes. I just finished [my time] at social networking and I’m not on any of them. No, I’ve been pushed very hard mostly by my business partner. He’s been very good about – he’s our social networking guru and he’s really pushed us very much into the space so that’s – I’m very thankful because it’s huge and it’s self-sustaining.
Mike McAllen: Yes. Well, that’s where I found you. So …
David Schenberg: Well, there you go.
Mike McAllen: Yes. So it worked. It already worked.
David Schenberg: Right on.
Mike McAllen: And so – well, I want to thank you very much, David for the interview and maybe we can check back in later on and see what’s going on with you guys there and maybe …
David Schenberg: I look forward to it.
Mike McAllen: … and thank you, thank you and I will talk to you soon.
David Schenberg: All right, be well.
Mike McAllen: Okay. Bye-bye.
David Schenberg: Bye-bye.